Bogleheads :: View topic - Our Investment/Savings Plan - Any ...

View previous topic :: View next topic ? Author Message randomwalk

Joined: 16 Sep 2011
Posts: 18


PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:39 am?? ?Post subject: Our Investment/Savings Plan - Any Thoughts Appreciated. Reply with quote

Good morning. I've done my share of lurking and have, over the past several years, read several of the books most highly recommended on this board (Bernstein, Bogle, Swedroe, both of the Bogleheads guides). I'm putting the finishing touches on our investment portfolio and savings plan and was hoping to get some thoughts.

Here's our info:

Emergency funds
: $10k now, will build to $50k over next two years. Held in high-yield savings account.

Debt
:
No credit card debt.
~$90k ($45k for each of us) in federal law school loans consolidated at 0.625% for 30 years.
First mortgage: ~400k 30-year fixed rate at 4.875%.
Second mortgage: ~60k 15-year fixed rate with balloon (amortized on 30-year schedule) at 8%.

Tax Filing Status
: Married filing Jointly

Tax Rate
: 33% Federal 6% State, Georgia

Age
: 31, spouse is 34

Portfolio:

We've each got a ROTH IRA at Vanguard, though our present income negates the ability to make additional contributions.

Spouse's 401(k) is at Vanguard with access to investors shares of virtually all Vanguard funds. My 401(k) is not at Vanguard but has access to institutional shares of Vanguard's Total Bond, Total Stock Market, and Total International funds (as well as Vanguard Institutional Index Fund). We are both maxing out our 401(k) contributions and plan to continue to do so. Our total portfolio is in the 6 figures.

Desired Asset allocation: 75/25

Int'l allocation: 33% of stocks

TIPS allocation: 50% of bonds

Current Allocation Across Accounts:

Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund - 50%
Vanguard Total Int'l Stock Index Fund - 25%
Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund - 12.5%
Vanguard Inflation-Protected Securities Fund - 12.5%

Future Plans:

At present we do not have taxable investment accounts. Once our emergency fund is in place we will begin funding a brokerage account at Vanguard. Plan is to fund the taxable account entirely in Vanguard Total Stock Market, at the same time reallocating contributions in the 401(k)s to preserve the overall allocation above.

Also planning to pay down the 8% second mortgage over the next 2-3 years rather than spreading it out over 15, or (heaven forbid) making the minimum payments and getting hit with the balloon payment. We plan to stay in this house long term.

No plans to prepay the student loans consolidated at 0.625%.

Questions:

1. Reasons not to pay down the second mortgage that quickly?
2. Any glaring deficiencies?
3. Any ways to improve?

We appreciate your thoughts.

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og15F1

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ObliviousInvestor

Joined: 17 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:54 am?? ?Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome! Smile

Your allocation seems quite reasonable to me.

Personally, unless there's a matching contribution to be had, I'd pay off that second mortgage before contributing anything to either 401(k). If there

is
a match available, I'd get that, then go back to paying off the mortgage.

After that's paid off, I'd max out each 401(k), but I'd probably put all additional funds toward the first mortgage before doing any taxable saving.

Also, you may want to consider the "backdoor Roth" after maxing out the 401(k)s.
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Back to top randomwalk

Joined: 16 Sep 2011
Posts: 18


PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:02 am?? ?Post subject: Reply with quote

ObliviousInvestor wrote:
After that's paid off, I'd max out each 401(k), but I'd probably put all additional funds toward the first mortgage before doing any taxable saving.

Thanks for bringing this up. This is probably the issue I'm struggling with the most, yet I forgot to mention it!

My current plan was to split the excess savings 50/50 between pre-paying the first mortgage and the taxable savings. That would put us on target to have the first mortgage paid off around 2028 or so. Pre-paying the first mortgage doesn't get us the full 4.875%, since we itemize and are in a pretty high tax bracket.

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ObliviousInvestor

Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 877


PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:26 am?? ?Post subject: Reply with quote

randomwalk wrote:
Pre-paying the first mortgage doesn't get us the full 4.875%, since we itemize and are in a pretty high tax bracket.

Indeed. If we assume it's entirely deductible, that leaves an after-tax return of ~2.97%.

Taking a look at the current SEC yields on most Vanguard bond funds: https://personal.vanguard.com/....torder=asc

...shows that a risk-free 3% return doesn't appear to be available on even a before-tax basis. In other words, I'd personally be reluctant to borrow money (or decline to pay back borrowed money) at an after-tax rate of ~3% in order to own bond funds that are unlikely to return 3%.

All of that said,
1) plenty of smart, well-informed bogleheads will probably disagree with me, and
2) even if you agree with me, it's worth revisiting the decision if/when bond yields rise.
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Back to top randomwalk

Joined: 16 Sep 2011
Posts: 18


PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:40 am?? ?Post subject: Reply with quote

ObliviousInvestor wrote:
In other words, I'd personally be reluctant to borrow money (or decline to pay back borrowed money) at an after-tax rate of ~3% in order to own bond funds that are unlikely to return 3%.

Interesting. This would complicate the overall asset allocation, would it not? If I'm essentially putting the extra savings into a bond-like ~3% repayment for X years, how should I take that into account in my overall asset allocation?

In other words, if instead of investing the extra savings in a taxable account as part of my overall 75/25 asset allocation, I only put it into mortgage repayment, it seems like I have made my portfolio more conservative. That's X dollars per month that are only going into a bond-like repayment instead of a 75/25 split.

That makes me think I should then adjust my 401(k) contributions to be weighted more to equities. But if I do that, then once the mortgage is paid off it seems I will be left with a portfolio that is over-weighted toward equities, since the paid-off house is not part of the fixed-income asset allocation.

Does any of that make sense?

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retiredjg

Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 9539


PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:52 am?? ?Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the forum! In general, I think your plan is very good.

Some comments for your consideration.

I think the 8% loan should be very

high on your list. I'd do this before any taxable investing. I might do it before maxing out both of the 401ks (maybe do half of max and rest to 8% loan).
Quote:
We've each got a ROTH IRA at Vanguard, though our present income negates the ability to make additional contributions.

Since you appear to have no traditional IRA accounts, you should definitely consider back door Roth before taxable investing.

"Brokerage account" at Vanguard means something different than other companies. Vanguard is actually split into the mutual fund side (selling only VG mutual funds) and Vanguard Brokerage Service (which sells everything else - VG ETFs, stocks, mutual funds and ETFs from other companies). Unless you want Vanguard ETFs, you have no need for a "brokerage account". Just open an "individual account" and keep using Vanguard mutual funds.

Total Stock Market is a good choice for your taxable account. Total International may be a better choice since it is eligible for the foreign tax credit (which you can't use in the 401ks). I would have both TSM and TISM myself for more flexibility. Wiki article link: Foreign tax credit
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retiredjg

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randomwalk

Joined: 16 Sep 2011
Posts: 18


PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:14 pm?? ?Post subject: Reply with quote

retiredjg wrote:
Since you appear to have no traditional IRA accounts, you should definitely consider back door Roth before taxable investing.

Thanks both to you and ObliviousInvestor

for this information. You are correct that we have no traditional IRA accounts, so I will amend our IPS to plan for back-door Roth contributions ahead of taxable investing.
retiredjg wrote:
Sounds like you may be subject to the AMT and that does change some decisions on what is best tax wise.

Unfortunately (?) you are correct, we are subject to the AMT. When we do our taxes this coming year I will look closely at how much of our mortgage interest is effectively non-deductible and adjust our plans to accelerate payments accordingly.

I appreciate your comments.

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ObliviousInvestor

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Back to top ofcmetz

Joined: 08 Feb 2011
Posts: 446
Location: Louisiana


PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:36 pm?? ?Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to Bogleheads Random Walker.

First, I'd like to say you appear to have your finances in order. You're plan seems good, but since you asked I'll give my two cents.

You've gotten good advice so far including investigating if or how the AMT would affect you. Assuming it wouldn't I would:

1. Continue to build my cash emergency fund. (as this gets bigger, I might do backdoor ROTH contributions and count them towards this part).

2. 401K payments up to match

3. Kill the 8% second mortgage.

4. Max out 401K's

5. Pay off my mortgage prior to after tax investing.

You can compromise with your self on #5 and do a 50/50 between taxable investing and mortgage payments.
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randomwalk

Joined: 16 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:03 pm?? ?Post subject: Reply with quote

ofcmetz wrote:
5. Pay off my mortgage prior to after tax investing.

First of all, thank you for your comments.

As for paying off the first mortgage, I've been thinking about this all day. I have some concerns about liquidity. If I devote all of our extra savings to paying down the mortgage, it seems that I am taking on liquidity risk by putting so much of our net worth into our home so quickly.

Granted, we'll have the $50k emergency fund, and our household income is pretty evenly split between the two of us, so the loss of one job would not be ruinous. That said, I'm not sure I'm comfortable in a situation where any money beyond the $50k either has to come out of a retirement account or home equity (particularly since HELOC availability is spotty when needed most).

Maybe that's a long-winded way of deciding that the 50/50 compromise is best for me, even if it not necessarily return-maximizing.

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ofcmetz

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bdpb

Joined: 06 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:49 pm?? ?Post subject: Reply with quote

I would mildly disagree with the experts about paying the 2nd mortgage
before maxing out your 401k. At these tax rates I would use as much tax
deductible saving as possible. You will have plenty of taxable savings in
a short time and will be glad you have tax advantaged accounts.

I agree the 2nd mortgage rate is very high, but at this income level you
should probably be saving 50k to 60k per year. That means 33k to the
tax deductible 401k and the other 30k to the 2nd mortgage. It will be
paid off in two years.

If you pass up the tax deductible account you are effectively trading this
for a taxable account a couple years down the road. That taxable account
will probably cost you at least 30bp per year and probably much more
than that for 50 years.

After the 2nd is paid, then back door Roth.

Then determine if you can make after-tax contributions to your 401k and
are allowed to roll them to a Roth IRA. Then do that up to 49k per year
per person.

Then taxable savings.

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BolderBoy

Joined: 07 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:37 pm?? ?Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome (from a lurker) -

I was faced with the how-to-approach-this a number of years back. One thought to keep in mind is that once a contribution year for your 401k contributions is gone... It is gone forever.

Personally, I'd max out the 401k contribs (and any other retirement accounts), then tackle the debt (highest interest first), then get with the taxable account investing.

Just MHO, having done it and am now debt free, almost work-free and 61 y/o.

B

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Dandy

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:21 am?? ?Post subject: Reply with quote

I like your proposed allocation - simple and well diversified. A bit too aggressive for me.

I also like your idea to split the excess income after paying off the second mortgage between paying down the 1st mortgage and after tax investing. Naturally, you would want to put the after tax investing in tax effecient investments e.g. equities

I would pay down the 8% second mortgage as quick as possible as long as it does not disrupt building your emergency fund.

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Ga. board considers high-profile inmate's case

His legal appeals exhausted, supporters of Troy Davis were making a last-ditch effort Monday to stop his execution for the 1989 murder of an off-duty Savannah police officer, asking the Georgia pardons board to grant clemency the 42-year-old who insists that he is innocent.

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The five-member Georgia Board of Pardons and Paroles has the power to change death sentences but rarely does. It was considering arguments surrounding Davis, who claims he is innocent of killing Mark MacPhail. He's set to be put to death by injection Wednesday, the fourth time in four years the state has tried to execute him.

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Story: Georgia death case grieves families on both sides

Inside the closed-door meeting, a parade of attorneys and supporters asked the five-member board to spare Davis' life. Defense attorney Stephen Marsh said the legal team told the board there was too much substantial doubt about his guilt to allow the execution to go forward. Prosecutors were expected to argue their case later Monday.

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Davis' attorneys and supporters packed the pardons board for their session. Among the people who spoke were Quiana Glover, who said she was at a friend's house in June 2009 when another man told her he killed MacPhail, and Brenda Forrest, a juror who helped convict him in 1991 but is now having second thoughts.

"I feel, emphatically, that Mr. Davis cannot be executed under these circumstances," Forrest said in an affidavit presented to the board by Davis' attorneys.

The board will likely issue its decision by Tuesday. The Rev. Raphael Warnock, a Davis supporter who spoke at the hearing, said the board was attentive and inquisitive, peppering the speakers with questions. But he said it's too hard to predict how the panel will decide.

"It's a very difficult place to be. A man's life hangs in the balance," he said. "But we were very clear that an execution should not take place."

theGrio: Death penalty debate resurrected for 2012 campaign

Two of the panel's five members have already reviewed the case several times: Gale Buckner, a former Georgia Bureau of Investigation agent, and Robert Keller, the ex-chair of a Georgia prosecutors group. The other three have been appointed to the board since 2009. They are: James Donald, the former head of the Georgia Department of Corrections, Albert Murray, who led the state's juvenile justice program, and Terry Barnard, a former Republican state lawmaker.

MacPhail was shot to death on Aug. 19, 1989 after rushing to help Larry Young, a homeless man who was pistol-whipped in a Burger King parking lot. Prosecutors say Davis was with another man who was demanding that Young give him a beer when Davis pulled out a handgun and bashed Young with it. When MacPhail arrived to help, they say Davis had a smirk on his face when he shot the officer to death.

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Moore said the evidence cast some additional doubt on Davis' conviction, but that it was "largely smoke and mirrors" and not enough to vindicate Davis or grant him a new trial. When the appeals courts refused to review the judge's decision, Davis' attorneys set their hopes on persuading the pardons board to grant clemency.

In a 60-page petition to the board, Davis' legal team contends that several witnesses who testified at his trial have disputed all or parts of their testimony, and that several others who did not testify say another man was to blame for the shooting. They say the evidence creates too much doubt to allow the execution to go forward. And they argue that a string of court rulings that upheld his conviction largely failed to address his innocence claims.

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Prosecutors have stood by their case through the years. They say ballistics evidence links Davis to the shooting and that many of the concerns about witness testimony were raised during the trial. The allegations that someone else later confessed to the shooting, they say, are inconsistent and inadmissible in court.

And MacPhail's relatives say there's no question that prosecutors charged the right person with the officer's killing.

"There's no doubt," said Anneliese MacPhail, the slain officer's mother. "Not after I went through that trial and saw what I saw."

___

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Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44581945/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

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Source: http://hardcandytv.com/tips-for-mens-health-2/html

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Buddy Media Launches Intelligent Facebook Data And Analytics Platform For Marketers

buddymediaFresh with new funding, Buddy Media, a company that provides Facebook Page and social media management tools to brands, is launching ConversionBuddy, a data and analytics platform for brand marketers. Buddy Media provides an all-in-one social media management system to help create, manage and track social campaigns on Facebook. The platform lets brand managers agencies create, manage and track Facebook pages in a variety of languages to drive and increase user and brand engagement. Users don?t need to have any prior FBML knowledge to create pages on Facebook and can create sleek and interactive pages fairly easily.

Source: http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Techcrunch/~3/oEC9IKo29ws/

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Obama Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires | G7Finance.com ...

d0ce18fiscal1 articleLarge Obama Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

Scott Eells/Bloomberg News, left; Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images

The investor Warren E. Buffett, left, inspired the name of President Obama?s proposal.

WASHINGTON ? President Obama on Monday will call for a new minimum tax rate for individuals making more than $1 million a year to ensure that they pay at least the same percentage of their earnings as middle-income taxpayers, according to administration officials.

With a special joint Congressional committee starting work to reach a bipartisan budget deal by late November, the proposal adds a new and populist feature to Mr. Obama?s effort to raise the political pressure on Republicans to agree to higher revenues from the wealthy in return for Democrats? support of future cuts from Medicare and Medicaid.

Mr. Obama, in a bit of political salesmanship, will call his proposal the ?Buffett Rule,? in a reference to Warren E. Buffett, the billionaire investor who has complained repeatedly that the richest Americans generally pay a smaller share of their income in federal taxes than do middle-income workers, because investment gains are taxed at a lower rate than wages.

Mr. Obama will not specify a rate or other details, and it is unclear how much revenue his plan would raise. But his idea of a millionaires? minimum tax will be prominent in the broad plan for long-term deficit reduction that he will outline at the White House on Monday.

Mr. Obama?s proposal is certain to draw opposition from Republicans, who have staunchly opposed raising taxes on the affluent because, they say, it would discourage investment. It could also invite scrutiny from some economists who have disputed Mr. Buffett?s assertion that the megarich pay a lower tax rate over all, because many in that group actually make more from wages than from investments.

In a speech on Thursday, Speaker John A. Boehner, Republican of Ohio, agreed with Mr. Obama that the deficit-reduction committee ?can tackle tax reform, and it should,? to get rid of many tax breaks and allow for lower marginal rates.

?Tax increases, however, are not a viable option for the joint committee,? Mr. Boehner said. Instead, he emphasized that meeting the deficit-reduction target should come largely from overhauling benefit programs like Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.

The Obama proposal has little chance of becoming law unless Republican lawmakers bend. But by focusing on the wealthiest Americans, the president is sharpening the contrast between Republicans and Democrats with a theme he can carry into his bid for re-election in 2012.

It could also reassure Democrats who have feared that Mr. Obama would agree to changes in programs like Medicare without forcing Republicans to compromise on taxes.

The administration wants such a tax to replace the alternative minimum tax, which was created decades ago to make sure the richest taxpayers with plentiful deductions and credits did not avoid income taxes, but which now hits millions of Americans who are considered upper middle class. Mr. Obama has said that many average Americans could see a tax cut if the system is overhauled, since ending many tax breaks would allow for lower rates while raising more revenues from the wealthiest.

The millionaires? tax is among several changes Mr. Obama will propose in urging Congress to overhaul the federal income tax code next year, both to raise revenues for reducing deficits and to make the tax system simpler and fairer, said the administration officials, who agreed to speak in advance of the president?s announcement on the condition of anonymity.

The millionaires? rate would affect only 0.3 percent of taxpayers, they said. That would be fewer than 450,000; 144 million returns were filed for 2010.

Mr. Obama?s proposal comes a month after Mr. Buffett began reviving his longstanding objection that he and ?my megarich friends? pay a significantly lower percentage of their income in federal taxes ? income and payroll taxes ? than everyone else, thanks to the tax code?s favoritism toward the rich, and especially toward investors like him.

?My friends and I have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress,? he wrote in an opinion article in The New York Times, a complaint he has repeated in talks and media interviews since. ?It?s time for our government to get serious about shared sacrifice.?

Mr. Obama has been citing Mr. Buffett as he promotes his $447 billion job-creation plan. He proposes to offset the cost of that plan and reduce future budget deficits through higher taxes on the wealthy and on corporations after 2013, when the economy will presumably be healthier.

Mr. Obama?s proposed Buffett Rule puts a new spin on that pitch, as he tries to put Republicans in Congress and in the presidential race on the defensive for their rigid stand against higher taxes.

Source: http://g7finance.com/g7finance-news/obama-tax-plan-would-ask-more-of-millionaires/

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